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Post by raysgm on Jan 25, 2019 0:58:36 GMT -5
To add another idea to my wishlist of things I think would be really fun, but probably won't get implemented (along with Restricted Free Agency), I have an anti-tanking idea I figured I'd throw out there.
Right now, there is a significant amount of incentive for decent teams to play a sub-optimal lineup, most notably:
1. You get a better draft position in BOTH the winter and summer drafts
2. By sitting your XXX-3rd year players, you retain an further year of team control sit their best XXX-3rd players and make other sub-optimal lineup decisions.
I don't know the best way to fix #2, but I think a good method to decentivize #1 is to have the draft not be decided by your place of finish at the end of the previous season, but instead by the record of another team. Here's how I imagine it would work (it's not fully thought through, I'm literally typing this out in my boxers right now before going to sleep):
1. In previous years, the team with the worst record at the end of the previous season (call it 2018) gets the top pick in the Winter 2018 draft and the first pick in each round of the Summer 2019 draft. This past season, that went to Minnesota (46-116).
2. I propose that instead, at some point during the 2018 offseason, we instead have a draft of teams for the 2019 season. Minnesota would have the top pick here, and would be allowed to pick any team other than themselves. Their picks in the 2019 Winter and 2020 Summer would be tied to whichever team they felt was going to finish with the worst record in 2019.
3. We continue, with the 29 additional teams selecting the remaining team they feel will have the worst record in the upcoming season.
Here is an example of how this could play out:
-We have a draft this offseason to pick teams for the 2020 season. Minnesota selects Atlanta.
-At the end of the 2020 season, Atlanta finishes with the 4th worst record in the league and Minnesota finishes with the 6th worst.
-In the 2020 Winter draft, Minnesota will receive the 4th pick, and in the 2021 Summer draft, Minnesota receives the 4th pick in each round.
-In the 2020 Team draft, Minnesota has the 6th pick in terms of selecting a team for the 2021 season to decide their picks on.
A few additional notes:
-I propose that the only team allowed to "select" themselves is the last team to pick, and their pick is decided by default (there is only one team left to choose).
-In the team draft, whoever owns the 1st round pick for that season gets to choose the team to tie the pick to. For example, if I trade my summer 2021 1st round pick to the Blue Jays, Tracy would select a team to tie my 2021 summer/2020 winter pick to.
I think this could be a fun way to eliminate tanking, increase competition, and create some more friendly rivalries/alliances (e.g., rooting against certain teams since they're tied to your pick, or rooting with another team if they have your first rounder, since if they make a good decision, you benefit in the winter draft).
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Post by phillies17 on Jan 25, 2019 8:49:38 GMT -5
I think a lottery of the 5 or 10 worst teams should decide the order for the summer draft. Then that order is reversed for the winter draft.
That would prevent double dipping on the top picks and randomize your draft slot which would eliminate the need to "super" tank. Teams could still try to lose, but there is no incentive to be a doormat for the rest of the league. it would give the re-building teams more reason to win enough games to stay in the top 10 for drafting but not hurt themselves as much financially.
On the talent distribution idea's I would also like to see a 5th round pick added and the 1st locked down (non tradable) with the 2nd rounders controlled. You cannot skip 2nd's in consecutive years. It does require some EC maintenance, but probably not much on the spreadsheet. Maybe even institute a 3 pick minimum per year to keep teams stocked.
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Post by KC Royals Nate on Jan 25, 2019 9:59:49 GMT -5
How about a Winter Draft tournament for the top 8-12 spots in the Winter Draft. Roster is limited to your final September week MP. 3-5 game series, could be run by someone other than Joe, so he's not having to deal with more.
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Post by bigredmachine on Jan 25, 2019 10:14:40 GMT -5
I appreciate the thought behind Connors anti tanking proposal but whats to stop the two teams from colluding at the end of the season when they're out of it to get better picks?
Maybe a better alternative could be averaging the wins from the last 2-3 years for the winter draft to change up that position. That could prevent teams that tank for one season from having the advantage of the "double dip" with winter and summer draft?
If you wanted to prevent stashing maybe you could take the total of war for stashed players and subtract that from next years budget? For example if a team leaves 16 war in the minors maybe they lose .5 mil for every war so they'd lose 8 mil next season?
Its clear that real life MLB teams are using a tanking strategy and manipulating service time so I dont really see it as that big of a problem. I feel that other than the winter draft, there's not a huge advantage to tanking and if you nullify that advantage it may make it less appealing.
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Post by LA Angels GM on Jan 25, 2019 10:28:01 GMT -5
Maybe a better alternative could be averaging the wins from the last 2-3 years for the winter draft to change up that position. That could prevent teams that tank for one season from having the advantage of the "double dip" with winter and summer draft? I like this idea for the winter draft. Let the summer draft stay the same, but this is a good idea. If you wanted to prevent stashing maybe you could take the total of war for stashed players and subtract that from next years budget? For example if a team leaves 16 war in the minors maybe they lose .5 mil for every war so they'd lose 8 mil next season? Not a horrible idea, but sounds like a lot of work. Also, I am going to keep Kyle Tucker down this year. Not because I'm tanking, but because my team is best set up to keep him down one more year for Adam Jones' final year on his contract. Tucker may get a WAR projection north of 2. Do I get punished for that? To avoid that punishment, do I call him up for a week? I do agree with Colby, though. I don't really see a problem. Yeah, what Ty did a few years ago was shady and got us all in an uproar, but he should be allowed to do that. The goal is a championship, not to have a perennial .500 team. If he felt that tanking for a year got him closer to that goal, that should be his right. Maybe have a bigger ding towards his salary cap in future seasons, or the winter draft suggestion above, but other than that, there isn't much that I think should be done. |
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Post by bigredmachine on Jan 25, 2019 10:46:48 GMT -5
Maybe a better alternative could be averaging the wins from the last 2-3 years for the winter draft to change up that position. That could prevent teams that tank for one season from having the advantage of the "double dip" with winter and summer draft? I like this idea for the winter draft. Let the summer draft stay the same, but this is a good idea. If you wanted to prevent stashing maybe you could take the total of war for stashed players and subtract that from next years budget? For example if a team leaves 16 war in the minors maybe they lose .5 mil for every war so they'd lose 8 mil next season? Not a horrible idea, but sounds like a lot of work. Also, I am going to keep Kyle Tucker down this year. Not because I'm tanking, but because my team is best set up to keep him down one more year for Adam Jones' final year on his contract. Tucker may get a WAR projection north of 2. Do I get punished for that? To avoid that punishment, do I call him up for a week? I do agree with Colby, though. I don't really see a problem. Yeah, what Ty did a few years ago was shady and got us all in an uproar, but he should be allowed to do that. The goal is a championship, not to have a perennial .500 team. If he felt that tanking for a year got him closer to that goal, that should be his right. Maybe have a bigger ding towards his salary cap in future seasons, or the winter draft suggestion above, but other than that, there isn't much that I think should be done. I know that tracking the players kept down would be a pain in the ass. My original thought was to count anyone that had a year of mlb service prior to the start of the season but that would be a real bitch to track. |
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Jan 25, 2019 12:18:35 GMT -5
I actually believe that variance is the answer to anti-tanking. Something in the spirit of the NBA draft lottery, but that punishes tanking a little harder. You'd want around the bottom 30% to participate, so the bottom 8 teams? Or all teams with the 8th worst win total (including those tied for that record). It's the 7th or 8th worst because you don't really want more than 9-10 teams in the lottery. Lottery the top 4 picks and move on. The difference between 1 and 5 is pretty significant. You'd have to do more math to make it weighted, but simply saying to any team that tanking only gets you approximately 12% chance of getting the 1st pick overall for your troubles is pretty brutal.
I believe that a lottery system should be used for the Winter Draft and the first round of the Summer Draft. I'm not certain, but I think a separate drawing should be held for both those rounds.
I still think we should add an additional round to the Summer Draft as rosters continue to expand. (not related, but I just wanted to type it)
There is no answer for player hoarding/stashing. I hate it. I dislike the idea that teams have been able to abuse it, but the reason that was possible isn't related to GMs wanting to do it. I'll pick on Brian because he's a cool cat. If the economy on the league wasn't a little out of whack, then COL wouldn't have had the financial resources to just sign 4 different starting OFs in one offseason. The reason Polanco was stashed for so long was simply he had better options, but in a year when he had extra money he just chose to BUY an extra year of service for Andy BenNintendo. Teams should be able to hoard/stash whoever they want because another possible scenario is just good drafting at a position. Maybe a GM is really f'n good at drafting pitchers. When they bust, they turn into useful bullpen guys. Every pitcher he touches is just gold (or fire, depending on how well you relate to them whippersnappers out there). I don't want to penalize someone for being lucky and/or good. You should only penalize them if they are trying to exploit the system or if they are of Krug lineage.
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Post by LA Angels GM on Jan 25, 2019 13:15:12 GMT -5
I still think we should add an additional round to the Summer Draft as rosters continue to expand. (not related, but I just wanted to type it) Just wanted to agree. Drafting is fun, and I like adding more fun to already fun things. |
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Post by bluejaysgm on Jan 25, 2019 15:03:54 GMT -5
I don't think the summer draft should be touched, other than adding a 5th rd pick. Leave it based solely on record.
For winter draft I suggest it be based on base salary cap (not traded/saved cash). Regardless of record, the lowest revenue teams would get top priority in the draft and a greater chance to compete with the high revenue teams.
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Post by bigredmachine on Jan 25, 2019 15:12:26 GMT -5
I don't think the summer draft should be touched, other than adding a 5th rd pick. Leave it based solely on record. For winter draft I suggest it be based on base salary cap (not traded/saved cash). Regardless of record, the lowest revenue teams would get top priority in the draft and a greater chance to compete with the high revenue teams. I could really get behind this idea for the winter draft. I think its the most logical and simplest one presented so far. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 15:46:25 GMT -5
Are we trying to eventually get to 60-man rosters?
If so, I think AT LEAST one more round of the summer draft would be an excellent idea. I love the draft and researching players so I would be all in.
I also concur about the winter draft or we could do it based on a combined ranking with base salary and win-loss record. We could discuss what formula to use, etc. or how to weigh each of the two categories (75% base/ 25% record as an example.) Just some free association here.
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Post by phillies17 on Jan 25, 2019 16:42:10 GMT -5
If we were to do something to the winter draft in order to help small market teams, being one myself, I'd prefer a 2nd "supplemental" round consisting of only those teams below the league average sorted by cap. The pool could be more restrictive to push those teams to draft a player that would plug right into the active roster. This would allow teams to obtain a prospect to build for the future in round 1 and still obtain a controllable talent that could help them win now. Keep the pick and player locked to prevent trades so the low income teams have to add a player capable of being on their active roster assuming he gets a projection. I know the player will not put them over the top, but if targeted correctly could nicely supplement their roster and save valuable $$$ for a much needed FA.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 17:00:35 GMT -5
If we were to do something to the winter draft in order to help small market teams, being one myself, I'd prefer a 2nd "supplemental" round consisting of only those teams below the league average sorted by cap. The pool could be more restrictive to push those teams to draft a player that would plug right into the active roster. This would allow teams to obtain a prospect to build for the future in round 1 and still obtain a controllable talent that could help them win now. Keep the pick and player locked to prevent trades so the low income teams have to add a player capable of being on their active roster assuming he gets a projection. I know the player will not put them over the top, but if targeted correctly could nicely supplement their roster and save valuable $$$ for a much needed FA. This is a very interesting idea. What do others think ? |
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Jan 25, 2019 18:40:20 GMT -5
I don't think the summer draft should be touched, other than adding a 5th rd pick. Leave it based solely on record. For winter draft I suggest it be based on base salary cap (not traded/saved cash). Regardless of record, the lowest revenue teams would get top priority in the draft and a greater chance to compete with the high revenue teams. I like the winter draft solution. I'm still in favor of a lottery system for the 1st round of Summer. |
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Whitesox
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Post by Whitesox on Jan 25, 2019 19:29:59 GMT -5
If we were to do something to the winter draft in order to help small market teams, being one myself, I'd prefer a 2nd "supplemental" round consisting of only those teams below the league average sorted by cap. The pool could be more restrictive to push those teams to draft a player that would plug right into the active roster. This would allow teams to obtain a prospect to build for the future in round 1 and still obtain a controllable talent that could help them win now. Keep the pick and player locked to prevent trades so the low income teams have to add a player capable of being on their active roster assuming he gets a projection. I know the player will not put them over the top, but if targeted correctly could nicely supplement their roster and save valuable $$$ for a much needed FA. This is a very interesting idea. What do others think ? Not sure if I could get on board with this. I am not in favor of excluding some teams from a specific round. The teams with below average base caps are usually the ones picking earlier in the draft, that is enough of an advantage. I also do not get how we would implement standards on who the GM could draft and have another set of eligibility criteria for this "supplementary" round. The winter draft was created as a way to mirror the competitive A/B and competitive balance rounds in the rl draft, it alone is already enough of a "supplementary" draft. It kind of sounds like a Rule V draft for only bad teams. I like the idea of the lowest base-cap or average wins over a couple years for the winter draft order. If we implemented this, I would not see a need to create a lotto for the summer draft. Also in favor of adding a 5th round in the summer draft in 2020. And let's nip this rollover cash shenanigan in the butt. |
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Whitesox
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Post by Whitesox on Jan 25, 2019 19:30:56 GMT -5
P.S. Connors idea is fucking crazy
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Jan 25, 2019 20:08:24 GMT -5
P.S. Connors idea is fucking crazy I do love it when Connor makes my ideas look reasonable.  |
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Post by phillies17 on Jan 25, 2019 21:03:02 GMT -5
I do not really see a reason to change the draft order of the winter unless its to prevent tanking. In my limited experience here, I don't feel the winter draft does much to help low income teams any more than rich teams. Being one round, it typically does nothing for bad teams in the short term, and certainly not as much as 4+ picks in the summer, so I don't believe it should be thought of as a vehicle to make bad teams better.
I agree it's a fun event during a dead time of year, but being a bad team with no money I can safely say its probably the least useful tool available for trying to get better.
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Post by LA Angels GM on Jan 25, 2019 21:59:59 GMT -5
P.S. Connors idea is fucking crazy This is what I wrote to another member of the league after reading that this morning.  |
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Post by raysgm on Jan 25, 2019 22:49:55 GMT -5
HAHA!
My ideas may be outlandish, but I'm (pretty) sure they'd increase the fun level! Maybe! COULD BE COOL YOU GUYS!
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Post by LA Angels GM on Jan 25, 2019 22:53:06 GMT -5
Keep 'em coming. I'd rather have crazy ideas than no ideas at all.
If nothing else, look how much good talk it generated today.
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