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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 13:31:42 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 9:25:01 GMT -5
ok. I've gone over this proposal a couple times. and I think there is viability to it for leagues where the problem was too much tanking. I'm still new here, and my early returns aren't that too much tanking is a problem. but others have called out GMs for these tactics.
I perceive the biggest problem is the overvaluation of summer draft picks. the inflation makes a full tear down / rebuild difficult. I've not experienced free agency yet, so I don't know what to expect.
I think I'm sitting on $50mil in available cap space... but... its certainly a 2nd tier rotation, a shit bullpen, Escobar and La Stella as my only infielders. Aaron Hicks is going to catcher every flyball, but even so...
For this league... in my early impressions... this Tanking Tax wouldn't achieve the parity / competitive incentive that it outlined to do.
Personally, I hate losing. Im in leagues where I have to field manage home games, or road games and getting beat on a game by game basis sucks... but I understand the need to build, and unfortunately build slowly. having a mediocre team has a way of getting you stuck in mediocrity... maybe something along a lines of a tanking tax could help that...
but thats only if the GMS of the mediocre teams recognize that, and want to win.
Across the Fantasy and Sim landscape, I see the bigger problem is the amount of information we have, so many of us get caught up in the fun of having the top prospect in our system. the lists from BA, BP, Fangraphs, MLB, Minorleagueball and on and on ... look at all the guys I have in my system that made the top 100. super, thats great. theres no trophy for that. huh, maybe we need a trophy. Anyone else interested in kicking in a few bucks each year to make an actual league trophy? HAHA. no seriously, I'd do it.
Tank Tax... nah... I think there should be other priorities to fix inadequacies in the NSBL, but I do think we need to institute a trophy for the champion.
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Post by raysgm on Feb 15, 2018 17:19:06 GMT -5
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Post by phillies17 on Feb 15, 2018 19:59:01 GMT -5
It all comes down to what kind of league do you really want. In real life owners are out to make money and winning on the field CAN provide more money, but not necessarily. Profit margin has always been a defacto salary cap for most professional leagues. Selling off players goes back to the days of Connie Mack and his hundred thousand dollar infield, or the Red Sox and Babe Ruth. I really don't think winning was all that important until the 70's, as long as you won enough to make money and fill seats (outside the Yankees). I'm a die hard Bruin fan, different sport but for 30 years (pre cap) heard the same thing. Jacobs is just too cheap to get that last player to push them over the top. The Bruins made the playoffs for 30 straight years, sold out for about 40 but never won the Cup because they were always perceived as one player away. With the cap he's off the hook... and oh yeah they won the Cup. Back to baseball, if you lived in Philly then I'm sorry. The good team left but had stopped winning decades earlier while the oh for 80 and 2 for 110 team stayed. Most other original cities did not fare much better.
This league has a different set of issues, but the same question... what kind of league do you want to be? If you want a draft and retain league, then you have to tank. Just so long you don't do it too long and kill your long term cap situation. Tanking already builds in a financial penalty, possibly enough to prevent winning at some point. That also means you need 30 owners good at prospect hunting. If you fail at prospects then you just can't win through free agency.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 6:27:53 GMT -5
True... but with a twist. Cooper's suggestion is around stopping tanking in real life baseball. Travis and Carson were talking about a deep alternate universe simulation league. I'm fairly sure in that "what if" league, all teams have same / similar cap space financial options. Having different cap ceilings makes the league at least attempting to mirror real life. Their league is using completely fictional players, and they have options of allocating resources to different aspects of their teams planning to achieve their goals. I think we fancy ourselves a simulation of real life... we have real players, with ratings that are affected by their real performance, caps based on real caps... and the real life teams generate real revenue. should I have merged the threads... maybe... I just get the feeling sometimes an idea from real life carries more weight than an idea from "your other sim league." at the end of the day, its about whether you think Tanking is a problem. Its been a perceived problem for the 9 years I was in the OTHL.ca SIm Hockey League. Then 3 real life teams, tanked, or didn't exactly compete, and then won 3 WS titles. I don't think in Fantasy Baseball there should be such a need to tear it all down, but that really depends on the economic structure of the league. If a 5 year build is an acceptable timeline... best prepare yourself for some tanking. If you are going to mandate that some teams because of their financial constraints can on;y build through the draft, best prepare yourself for some tanking.
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Post by phillies17 on Feb 16, 2018 10:06:13 GMT -5
The franchise I inherited is probably the poster child for how not to win in this format. This league is not geared to win through free agency and there are not enough chips to build by trading, especially with the value placed on these chips. There is already a penalty in place for tanking, which is reduced payroll. It might be too heavy handed, but we'll see. I've run the numbers on my team and I think it is, but I have to prove it. Right now I am salary prohibited from winning more than I would like, having almost 90% less spending power than some teams, so right now I am not in tank mode but cannot be in playoff win mode, I'm just not suck mode. My build will be especially gradual (more so than most rebound teams) and quite frankly may take a double bounce to be salary competitive which means I can win championships on my second rebuild cycle, this cycle will just build my cap space for the second go-around. By the time I have cap flexibility, my current prospects will be at the end of their control window and either outside or at max salary relative to my $ keep capabilities.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 10:39:48 GMT -5
I am interested to experience a free agency period here, but i am concerned based on the salaries of previous free agents, I won't be able to make my team better by any stretch. If I go after a single player that can help me, even a tier 2-3 guy could be upwards for $20 million a year. when you talking about a commitment of that kind, only a few teams can take on that burden.
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Post by LA Angels GM on Feb 16, 2018 10:44:47 GMT -5
The franchise I inherited is probably the poster child for how not to win in this format. This league is not geared to win through free agency and there are not enough chips to build by trading, especially with the value placed on these chips. There is already a penalty in place for tanking, which is reduced payroll. It might be too heavy handed, but we'll see. I've run the numbers on my team and I think it is, but I have to prove it. Right now I am salary prohibited from winning more than I would like, having almost 90% less spending power than some teams, so right now I am not in tank mode but cannot be in playoff win mode, I'm just not suck mode. My build will be especially gradual (more so than most rebound teams) and quite frankly may take a double bounce to be salary competitive which means I can win championships on my second rebuild cycle, this cycle will just build my cap space for the second go-around. By the time I have cap flexibility, my current prospects will be at the end of their control window and either outside or at max salary relative to my $ keep capabilities. Look at my year-by-year records in my signature. I know a thing or two about gradual rebuilds in this league. Thankfully, a lot of my prospects are coming of age and graduating to the majors. A few have already fizzled out... here's hoping more don't, or I'll still remain in purgatory.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 11:03:46 GMT -5
The franchise I inherited is probably the poster child for how not to win in this format. This league is not geared to win through free agency and there are not enough chips to build by trading, especially with the value placed on these chips. There is already a penalty in place for tanking, which is reduced payroll. It might be too heavy handed, but we'll see. I've run the numbers on my team and I think it is, but I have to prove it. Right now I am salary prohibited from winning more than I would like, having almost 90% less spending power than some teams, so right now I am not in tank mode but cannot be in playoff win mode, I'm just not suck mode. My build will be especially gradual (more so than most rebound teams) and quite frankly may take a double bounce to be salary competitive which means I can win championships on my second rebuild cycle, this cycle will just build my cap space for the second go-around. By the time I have cap flexibility, my current prospects will be at the end of their control window and either outside or at max salary relative to my $ keep capabilities. Look at my year-by-year records in my signature. I know a thing or two about gradual rebuilds in this league. Thankfully, a lot of my prospects are coming of age and graduating to the majors. A few have already fizzled out... here's hoping more don't, or I'll still remain in purgatory. DAMN!! that's like waiting til your 5th wedding anniversary to get to second base. You're either the most patient person on the planet, or you have another league you actually care more about, so you're just hanging out here. I take your "gradual" rebuild a testament of a broken system. Its a game. I think unless you're a toolbag, or purposely collecting prospects instead of wins 4 years should be enough to start to turn things around. rebuilds should be longer than the life span of most leagues.
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Post by bluejaysgm on Feb 16, 2018 11:45:27 GMT -5
First 4 signed FA's this week in DMBO:
Player Team Years Salary Price, David San Francisco Giants 4 34.510 Ohtani, Shohei Seattle Mariners 10 44.355 Kluber, Corey New York Yankees 5 45.608 Sale, Chris Boston Red Sox 6 40.100
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 11:58:34 GMT -5
First 4 signed FA's this week in DMBO: Player Team Years Salary Price, David San Francisco Giants 4 34.510 Ohtani, Shohei Seattle Mariners 10 44.355 Kluber, Corey New York Yankees 5 45.608 Sale, Chris Boston Red Sox 6 40.100 yup, can't afford any other those (if the market is similar here) and still field a team.
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Post by LA Angels GM on Feb 16, 2018 13:26:17 GMT -5
Look at my year-by-year records in my signature. I know a thing or two about gradual rebuilds in this league. Thankfully, a lot of my prospects are coming of age and graduating to the majors. A few have already fizzled out... here's hoping more don't, or I'll still remain in purgatory. DAMN!! that's like waiting til your 5th wedding anniversary to get to second base. You're either the most patient person on the planet, or you have another league you actually care more about, so you're just hanging out here. I take your "gradual" rebuild a testament of a broken system. Its a game. I think unless you're a toolbag, or purposely collecting prospects instead of wins 4 years should be enough to start to turn things around. rebuilds should be longer than the life span of most leagues. When I took over the team, the farm system was barren, but there was a good amount of aging, expensive talent on the roster. I figured that my window to win a championship with that core was 2 - maybe 3 - years. I was new to sim leagues and didn't know anything about scouting prospects, so I decided I would sell everything I had on the farm - literally everything, including a lot of draft picks - and try to win a championship within that window. I made it to the ALCS once. I was left with zero talent on my major league roster and zero talent on my reserve roster. Was it worth it? I think so. It was fun. And rebuilding has been fun as well. I had to learn how to scout and draft properly. I took the long range plan and actually positioned myself three years ago to make this off-season the one where I was able to really make another push for it. Has it worked? I have Seager, Urias, Hader, Devers, McMahon, and Dahl ready to contribute, several more knocking on the door, and $70+ million to spend. I think it worked, and I'm hopeful that my long- rebuild will create a longer model of success than a quick rebuild would have. A few of my draft picks and trade acquisitions have fizzled out, but the majority of them have been successful or appear to be on that path. Besides, I really have learned to enjoy the prospect side of things.
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