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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Dec 29, 2016 13:36:51 GMT -5
How is this any different than GMs who come on the message board to say they aren't going to counter a day 2 bid in free agency? We hold those as binding, even though that's not what the rules state to do. This is the same as someone winning day 1, seeing the day 2 bid, coming onto the message board and saying they're not going to counter, then emailing that GM later that night with a counter and saying "well, it wasn't official because I didn't send it in to Ian". You're an idiot. It's the same if you're referring to the fact they aren't in the rules. Technically, if someone wanted to exploit a loophole in the rules and make a big stink about it, they could do so. We've all acknowledged that Jim made a mistake, even Jim himself. This isn't high stakes poker where "verbal is binding" applies. This isn't chess where "you took your hand off the piece" applies. It isn't in the rules. The trade was obviously agreed to according to the rules because it was posted. Delete Jim's mistake thread. Trade should be binding if it went thru proper channels. The committee can change the rules later.
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Dec 29, 2016 14:23:45 GMT -5
If nothings official until January 9th, why is it that some of the teams who sent in their options earlier are already accounted for on the updated roster? What if someone hit up San Diego and made an offer for Jeff Mathis? Or someone asks Baltimore and asks for Rudy Owens? Why does jim get to wait until the 9th to make his official, when clearly there have been NTC's and declined options already made 'official'. This is a minor thing, but the inconsistent pattern regarding what 'official' is, is concerning. The 9th is listed as the 'due date' on the calendar. That implies nothing about them not being official until the 9th. So I was under the assumption that when you email (or post) your NTC's and options they become official, apparently im wrong. Personally, I think that's just the committee trying to stay ahead of the rosters. I don't see how I can be bound to any decisions until the "due date/deadline" the committee gives me. The real issue is that it's not in the rules either way. We're all taking positions based on how we think it should work. Objectively, this is about the weight of public information, how NSBL "due dates/deadlines" work, and the possible need for rules clarification. If our messages carry that much weight on this board, then we shouldn't even have to send in trades to a committee member, we could just have a GM post and the other reply to the post with an agreement just like we do in bidding wars! That's currently against the rules, but it was the shiniest apple to compare to this orange situation. We can change the rules going forward, but we shouldn't make an example out of this situation by enforcing a new rule retroactively. What a glorious start to the Season of Idiots!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 14:26:02 GMT -5
Let the trade stand. If this is a simple case of mishandling of process then myself and the Pirates GM are guilty as charged.
Here is my suggestion. If any GM wants Revere, make me an offer along the lines of the original trade and he is yours!
Can't say fairer than that!
Lee Washington GM
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Dec 29, 2016 14:33:35 GMT -5
For the record, if the committee thinks it's correct for the trade to be reversed, I don't really care either way. As much as I want the current rules to be enforced, I don't want any GM to feel like they are getting shit on in this situation. It's just a bunch of confusion at this point. A "reset button" wouldn't hurt my feelings at all just as long as we get clarification and we know how to handle it in the future.
I think this is also an example of how long the core of GMs have been in this league together that we were all essentially functioning on auto-pilot.
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Post by Cubbies on Dec 29, 2016 16:06:18 GMT -5
Sean is right. I've just been trying to stay ahead of the rosters by processing all the arb and option stuff as soon as I can so it's not all done in one weekend. Also so Ian can get a head start on any CE inquiries so he's not getting two dozen at once.
Precedent was set earlier in the offseason when another player was dealt after the owner had emailed me that he wanted to decline his arbitration. So, as the rules currently stand, Jim was well within his rights to pull Revere back to deal him. This will likely be something we look at changing next offseason.
But this trade has received a protest, based solely on the trade itself with no association to the above loophole, so the committee is looking at it.
Stay civil, peeps and idiots.
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Dec 29, 2016 21:06:21 GMT -5
Joe recommending civility in the "smack talk" thread is crazy. It borders on idiotic.
Someone say something terrible about my team and the idiot that runs it so we can get this thread back on track.
You're all idiots.
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Post by Cubbies on Dec 29, 2016 21:13:28 GMT -5
Joe recommending civility in the "smack talk" thread is crazy. It borders on idiotic. Someone say something terrible about my team and the idiot that runs it so we can get this thread back on track. You're all idiots. As uneven as some view this trade, it's still not as lopsided as that Brock Holt! deal. Revisionist history has us vetoing that deal. You got schooled by a newb. Lamer.
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Dec 29, 2016 21:38:48 GMT -5
I'm here to ruin everything.
Thanks, idiot!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 2:17:31 GMT -5
So the Revere deal has been cancelled by the Committee. I will be interested to see who goes after Revere in Free Agency!!
Lee Washington GM
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Post by Bal-Ty-more on Dec 30, 2016 12:14:53 GMT -5
So the Revere deal has been cancelled by the Committee. I will be interested to see who goes after Revere in Free Agency!! Lee Washington GM Sorry that one of your first trades had to get vetoed. You can get a lot more for a player like Schultz though, not every GM in this league is willing to rob the new guy who doesn't know how this league values prospects. If you ever need help or want trade advice I'm more than willing to give you help. I gotta help out my Basin Neighbor. Our teams are practically in the same city.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 12:21:21 GMT -5
So the Revere deal has been cancelled by the Committee. I will be interested to see who goes after Revere in Free Agency!! Lee Washington GM Sorry that one of your first trades had to get vetoed. You can get a lot more for a player like Schultz though, not every GM in this league is willing to rob the new guy who doesn't know how this league values prospects. If you ever need help or want trade advice I'm more than willing to give you help. I gotta help out my Basin Neighbor. Our teams are practically in the same city. Many thanks. Lee
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Post by Pirates GM on Dec 30, 2016 14:51:35 GMT -5
I'm not sure why the Revere deal would be cancelled, if...
1. Joe agreed precedent was set earlier in the offseason, and that I was within my rights to make the trade.
2. There was clearly no collusion, as WAS approached me with the trade, and collusion is usually the only reason that a trade would be cancelled.
3. Joe admitted that the Brock Holt deal was more lopsided and was allowed through by the Committee.
So, since it could not be any of those reasons, then why was the deal cancelled? These seems unprecedented to me.
JIm
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Post by Pirates GM on Dec 30, 2016 15:01:40 GMT -5
Sorry that one of your first trades had to get vetoed. You can get a lot more for a player like Schultz though, not every GM in this league is willing to rob the new guy who doesn't know how this league values prospects. If you ever need help or want trade advice I'm more than willing to give you help. I gotta help out my Basin Neighbor. Our teams are practically in the same city. And while we're at it, that's more than enough from the AL East peanut gallery. Lee approached me about the trade, I gave him a list of lower-end pitching prospects I was interested in- as I'd like to add another arm to my reserve- and he chose Schultz himself off of the list. This could not have been farther from some type of coercion or trade pressure, so quit acting like a complete clown, Ty. JIm
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 15:36:28 GMT -5
Sorry that one of your first trades had to get vetoed. You can get a lot more for a player like Schultz though, not every GM in this league is willing to rob the new guy who doesn't know how this league values prospects. If you ever need help or want trade advice I'm more than willing to give you help. I gotta help out my Basin Neighbor. Our teams are practically in the same city. And while we're at it, that's more than enough from the AL East peanut gallery. Lee approached me about the trade, I gave him a list of lower-end pitching prospects I was interested in- as I'd like to add another arm to my reserve- and he chose Schultz himself off of the list. This could not have been farther from some type of coercion or trade pressure, so quit acting like a complete clown, Ty. JIm Jim is quite correct. I approached him about Revere and selected the player I sent to him. No coercion at all!! So quit trying to find a conspiracy!!!! Lee
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Dec 30, 2016 16:35:33 GMT -5
Yeah, Ty! Everyone knows that it's Jim's job to find conspiracies!
Squirrel!
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Dec 31, 2016 17:17:03 GMT -5
I'm not in love with that Bryce Harper deal, but that is a lot of pitching coming back.
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Post by Texas GM on Dec 31, 2016 18:59:59 GMT -5
I'm not in love with that Bryce Harper deal, but that is a lot of pitching coming back. I was wondering when Tim would finally get around to dealing him. In my opinion, he got quite a nice return for 3 seasons from him. If I'm him, I do that deal 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.
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Post by bluejaysgm on Dec 31, 2016 19:17:29 GMT -5
I'm not in love with that Bryce Harper deal, but that is a lot of pitching coming back. I was wondering when Tim would finally get around to dealing him. In my opinion, he got quite a nice return for 3 seasons from him. If I'm him, I do that deal 6 days a week and twice on Sunday. Its not a bad deal. I think he could have gotten more though if he publicized that he was looking to trade him.
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Dec 31, 2016 19:27:16 GMT -5
I was wondering when Tim would finally get around to dealing him. In my opinion, he got quite a nice return for 3 seasons from him. If I'm him, I do that deal 6 days a week and twice on Sunday. Its not a bad deal. I think he could have gotten more though if he publicized that he was looking to trade him. Yeah, what Tracy said.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 19:50:59 GMT -5
Its not a bad deal. I think he could have gotten more though if he publicized that he was looking to trade him. Yeah, what Tracy said. I can't say how many offers he was entertaining, but I know for a fact he had at least 2 and I don't think my final offer was too much below Connor's.
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Post by Cubbies on Dec 31, 2016 22:20:25 GMT -5
If Tim uses that 7.5 million on another starter, he just got an entire rotation for Harper (yeah, I know Puk and Holmes aren't ready yet).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 23:08:17 GMT -5
7.5M isn't going going to get you much of a starter in this market.
I'm just glad that Tim is active and we aren't looking at another opening. Speaking of which, is Scott still in the fold?
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Post by Cubbies on Jan 1, 2017 1:22:48 GMT -5
7.5M isn't going going to get you much of a starter in this market. I'm just glad that Tim is active and we aren't looking at another opening. Speaking of which, is Scott still in the fold? Yeah he is. I talked to him over the phone the other day. He's had some stuff come up but he is still there. Make sure when we email him, we send it to his gmail account. He doesn't have access to the old hotmail one anymore.
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Post by Bal-Ty-more on Jan 1, 2017 11:09:14 GMT -5
Nice haul for Harper. When you consider that Detroit was in a situation where they had to deal him this offseason because he was one of only two above average regulars on that team, it's a good trade.
Adding Puk and Holmes to that pitching reserve gives him one of the deepest in the league. If he concentrates on high quality hitting in the next draft to even it out and doesn't trade a bunch in a weird attempt to win now, he should have a nice window opening in a couple years. If I were him I'd either flip Cole now or send him to reserves for two years until I was ready to compete again.
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Post by Whitesox on Jan 1, 2017 16:34:25 GMT -5
The annual Toronto ripoff Philly trade has arrived...
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Post by BrewCrewGuru on Jan 1, 2017 17:08:05 GMT -5
Given that a big part of my GM persona these last couple of years is the idea that "GMs should run their teams however they want within the rules," I'm hesitant to criticize transactions (specifically trade). I just want to say in an open forum that not many of us were fans of the Gomber pick at the time it happened. I truly believe that this trade can happen, but not for the pieces that are currently involved. I'll send my official trade protest in an email, but it needs to be laid out here too.
Gomber was John's guy. He "reached" to get him as the best player left on his draft board at the time. I really think he should be holding him as a part of the rebuild instead of reloading for another losing season. Gomber has a shot to be a big part of a winning team in a few years.
Don't do it, John. Be better than the idiot typing these words. BE BETTER THAN THAT!
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Post by Cubbies on Jan 2, 2017 2:24:05 GMT -5
Nats get: Cole Hamels Jose Ramirez Jake Thompson 2017 1st round pick 20 mill in 2017 Rockies get: Andrew Benitendi Holy shit. Lee didn't come to play when he joined the league.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 3:39:08 GMT -5
Nats get: Cole Hamels Jose Ramirez Jake Thompson 2017 1st round pick 20 mill in 2017 Rockies get: Andrew Benitendi Holy shit. Lee didn't come to play when he joined the league. No, want to win. With that said it was a wrench to lose Benintendi. Also I am willing to flip Hammels and the $20m received for high level, major league ready prosedcts, so if snyone wants an ace @$11M per for 2 years let me know. Lee Washington GM
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Post by Cubbies on Jan 2, 2017 6:55:48 GMT -5
Let's see, so Connor gave up Gerrit Cole, Mike Fiers, AJ Puk, and Grant Holmes, plus 7.5 million for 3 years of Harper.
And if you count the way that Brian acquired Ramirez, then he just gave up David Price (Ramirez), Cole Hamels, Jake Thompson, a 1st round pick, and 20 million for 7 years of Benitendi.
And to think, Connor thought he overpaid for Harper...
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Post by rockiesgm on Jan 2, 2017 9:44:52 GMT -5
Let's see, so Connor gave up Gerrit Cole, Mike Fiers, AJ Puk, and Grant Holmes, plus 7.5 million for 3 years of Harper. And if you count the way that Brian acquired Ramirez, then he just gave up David Price (Ramirez), Cole Hamels, Jake Thompson, a 1st round pick, and 20 million for 7 years of Benitendi. And to think, Connor thought he overpaid for Harper... A wise GM once told me "Only trade for players you actually want on your roster. That's really the entire point of all this.". So I went and got the player I wanted on my roster. Haters gonna hate.
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